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Obama's birth certificate: is it real?

POSTED: Friday, November 20, 2009 - 4:07pm

UPDATED: Thursday, April 8, 2010 - 4:00am

TYLER — Warmth from the obama's innaugural dancing shoes had not even cooled before allegations of "a foreigner in the white house" surfaced.

Speculation the president was not born in Hawaii, rather in Africa and should not have the right to be in the oval office.

One fundementalist Christian group even has a half hour infomercial dedicated to the question of the president's birthplace.

In June the Obama administration released a copy of the president's birth certficate: showing the state of Hawaii as home.

They even launched their own website called: fightthesmears.com.

Some still question the authenticity of this document: the absence of an embossed seal and registrar's signature?

Hawaii's Department of Health reports about a dozen e-mails a day inquiring about the president's birth certificate.

The aloha state maintains embossed seal and signature are on the back and would't be seen on a photocopy.

Some East Texans wonder out loud if it is worth the effort on behalf of the president's opposition and if it is simply too little too late in a rising tide of public opinion against a healthcare plan, a deficit and an economy still trying to regain it's land legs.

Plenty of buzz on the internet, but what do East Texans think about from where their commander in chief hails, and if it really matters?

Comments News Comments

Yes Obama was born in Nigeria but he went back in time to make it look like he was born in Hawaii so he could take over the US. Once he calls off further elections and declares marshal law hes gonna change the countries name from The United States Of America to Obamaland. Then he's gonna get rich by letting people come over and torture americans kindof like in that movie Hostel.

All of you birthers really are crazy.
Did you believe that crap about Bush being AWOL or did you say it was partian crap put out ther to discredit the man. Im willing to bet you thought it was the latter.

Fun Fact of the day:

John Mccain was not born in the United States either. Did you see the democrats bringing that up?

Nick, the Democrats did bring up McCain's citizenship. They passed a nonbinding resolution declaring him to be a natural born citizen because both his both his parents were American citizens (not true for Obama) and stationed overseas in the military.

The accusations over Bush being AWOL were dismissed because CBS and Dan Rather ran with forged documents. The same is suspected over Obama's COLB being forged, but that would prove the accusations about him.

The reason Obama was made to appear to be born in Hawaii could have been for obtaining basic American citizenship and not part of a future conspiracy. If he really was born in Hawaii, it should be simple for him to present the original 1961 birth certificate and not a computer-generated and redacted birth abstract from 2007.

Here is the way to solve the problem: have President Obama switch parties and become a Bible-thumping, mean-spirited conservative. Problem solved! Then all the gripers and whiners would rally blindly to his side and be enraged at anyone who dared to question anything about their leader.

I'm not surprised that a repug owned tv station is still perpetuating this lie. Get over it channel 56,or are you trying to impress the fox news worshippers.

STILL?

Fundamentalists....... sheesh! They have no trouble following their own foreigner, do they?

Get A moving Van And out with Obama Quicker The Better

No one questions whether Obama's father was a US citizen. He was not. Does that, in and of itself, make Obama ineligible under the Natural Born Citizen exclusion? As it is not defined in the Constitution, then it must be determined by the Courts. Until the Supreme Court defines this term, these arguments are pointless.

One does have to ask why this President refuses to release even the simplest of school records though. Every other President, even the hated Bush, allowed the public to see his school records... why won't this transparent President? Why not simply release records rather than continue to fight in various courts? The fact that he refuses to release records gives many voters reason to question.

No, it does not make him ineligible.
Section 1 of Article 2 of the Constitution:
No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

It has nothing to do with citizenship of parents. Dred Scott V Sandford took care of that argument. Also, it might be noted that a conviction of a felony does NOT exclude someone from becoming President.
The President has released all transcirpts from school as well.

No, Scott, he has NOT released those transcripts. If he has, please feel free to post them and prove me wrong.

As to the definition of Natural Born, here are a few thoughts, based upon fact:

The Founders discussed allowing someone in the future take office that did not owe FULL allegience to the United States. Ben Franklin, at least, had a copy of De Vattel, and it was used as a reference when penning the Constitution. Adams, I believe, wrote to Washington imploring him to push that thought process. History is rife with examples of the Royalty marrying outside of the country and the spouse taking over a country of which they were an "outsider". The Founding Fathers sought to protect us from this set of circumstances.

The reason, once the Natural Born clause was ratified (by virtue of ratifying the Constitution), they had to Grandfather themselves is for a BIG reason. If you look at the history, the Founding Fathers WERE born in the US. So if mere birth in the US qualified, why would they have to Grandfather themselves? Answer: they were ALL born British subjects. Note that anyone born here AFTER the ratification of the Constitution are considered eligible (Remember, once we became our own country, those parents were BOTH considered citizens of the new country at the time of the child's birth). Interesting that today's issue concerns a man born a British subject, no? He freely admits being born a "Dual Citizen". The thought process of the Founding Fathers on Natural born was that you owed your allegience to America and America only. A dual citizen cannot, by definition, conform to that requirement.

At the time of the ratification of the 12th and 14th Ammendments, the country was still young. They still knew the thinking of the Founding Fathers. More importantly, the truth was still being taught to the children and the citizenry. We were growing and wanted all to be welcomed. Note that, under this set of circumstances, they did NOT deem these folks Natural Born. Again, ask yourself why not? Answer already given. In order to be a Natural Born Citizen you have to be born to Citizens (note the plurality). This complies with the definition the Founding Fathers set in place of owing alliegence to ONLY the United States. Also, the few Supreme Court rulings on the subject note the plurality of parent(s).

Another dissection of the writer's article:

"In June the Obama administration released a copy of the president's birth certficate: showing the state of Hawaii as home."

June? Of this year? More like August or September 2008. And they posted 2 versions. The first was removed very quickly.

This all seems to be new news for you. No offense, but you really should get your facts straight before posting on a major networks affiliate station website.

Besides the birth certificate issue -- what say you regarding Lolo Soetoro? Adoption? That trumps the bc issue. hmmm?

Soetoro/Obama is not qualified based on 3 facts:

1) Father was a Kenyan. Kenya was a British possession.

2) He was adopted in Indonesia by an Indonesian, Lolo Soetoro.

3) He was born in Kenya. Even the Kenyans consider him a "son of the soil."

Absolutely correct, guest, about the dual citizenship. Great comment.

The writer starts the article with "Warmth from the obama's innaugural dancing shoes had not even cooled before allegations of "a foreigner in the white house" surfaced."

That may be when you became aware of it. However, there was much activity on this subject, as well as many lawsuits.

Also, to turn all of your comments upside down -- what about the Nordyke twins, born the very same day, at the very same hospital as Barack Hussein Obama -- claims to be. Although he has stated one hospital and his sister stated the other. I suppose they can't keep their stories straight. The twins LONG FORM birth certificate looks NOTHING like his FAKE one. Read about this on WND or http://www.biasedmediaboycott.com/index.php?topic=80.0

Another thing for all of you to ponder: nearly 2 MILLION DOLLARS (of DONATED $$$ -- check the FEC website) have been spent for legal fees to Perkins Coie to fight the eligibility issue. Wonder why this is -- hmmmm? BTW: Obama just brought in to the WH, the lead attorney Robert Bauer. Wonder why this is -- hmmmm?

I did visit your link, which I found to have an ironic name, considering it's obviously completely biased to the far right, and I feel I must respond with an ACTUAL non-partisan fact checking site of my own: It would only be polite of you to return the courtesy and read the article, especially if you're going to reference something that's based on opinions and speculations.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jun/27/obamas-birth...

Believe me, the information circulating on boycottbiasednews was NOT recently discovered. It's nothing more than an out of control urban legend.

Politifact & Brandi fail to mention this:

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol06_ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0...

It doesn't matter if he was born in HI. His father was not a citizen. He openly admits to being a DUAL citizen at birth. However, one must be a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN to be the President. He quite simply does not qualify, by his own admission. Jindal has the same problem. Nothing personal or political about it. It's all spelled out in the Constitution. Could this be why he has sealed every record of his existence prior to being elected?

"Natural Born Citizen" means you were born on US soil. Your argument is baseless and idiotic. Illegal Mexican immigrants have children that are US citizens, simply for the fact that they were born here. I'm not even sure why I'm addressing this. I guess not all of us paid attention in history class.

Thank you for making my point, Brandi. As you pointed out, reflexively, the child of the illegal Mexicans are citizens. Notice that you did not call them Natural Born Citizens. They cannot be Natural Born, and your history lessons show in the fact that you did not call them Natural Born. That is a special distinction and one that the Founding Fathers specified only for the office of President. For all other offices, the only term is "citizen". The child of illegal immigrants, for better or worse, would qualify for those offices, but not for President. Ask yourself why they specified NATURAL BORN for that one office? I, too, paid attention in school. The definition I was taught for natural born is both parents being American citizens. Note that the Founding Fathers grandfathered themselves in. They had to. There were relatively few Natural Born Citizens old enough at the time to assume the office.

Before the Constitution the closest reference we have to Natural Born Citizen is from the legal treatise “the Law of Nations,” written by Emerich de Vattel in 1758. In book one chapter 19,

§ 212. Of the citizens and natives.

“The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.” //...

I realize I didn't place the link for my source of the de Vattel excerpt. While this is a link to a forum where someone has placed this information, it is a true excerpt:

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message891482/pg2

As you mentioned, this was prior to the Constitution (and all of the Amendments that made a difference in it), so the point is moot.

We don't use definitions in doctrines other than the Constitution, otherwise the Constitution would be pointless. Per Amendment 14, section 1 of the Constitution:

Amendment XIV
Section 1. All persons BORN or naturalized IN THE UNITED STATES, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, ARE CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The rest of this "natural born" debate is debunked at the URL below.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp

Right, Brandi. They are CITIZENS, and all of the ammendments you will research and point out only define "citizen" as opposed to Natural Born Citizen. Why is it, do you think that they are not defined as Natural Born? BIG difference. Bobby Jindal is having the same delusion.

As for using Snopes? Snopes is a husband and wife team that often do an admirable job of researching. I think I'll stick with the Constitution on this one. The Constitution is the bible of our country. The Gentlemen who penned it relied heavily on DeVattel and their writings back this up. They had good reason for making the Natural Born distinction. Nothing you have provided so far disputes that.

ok, the birth certificate debate, i think it's legitimate. one the other hand with the healthcare issue...when the democrats in clinton's administration (and donating friends) went against the firearms and ammunition (and hundreds of millions of dollar system), and had the production of various weapons banded that fight went to the last round. now, money essentially being the primary power in politics, and overall the US healthcare system (a multi trillion dollar system) being relatively quiet, who are the obama adminstration's friends? there are only a few groups on the face of the earth that have that kind of money. who are they? also, when responding to this don't cloud the facts, or raise another BS issue, or cry like a 4 year old with a scratched knee about something rediculous.

I think you must be referring to the hypothetical "health care system", as it hasn't passed the senate yet. And the answer to where all of the money has been coming from (for MANY years), is China. We're deeply in debt with them right now, and that didn't start with this administration. If you really want to delve into Presidential friendships that are questionable, then why don't you look into the documented relationships that Bush had with shady characters in the middle east, before you go speculating about rumors that have no credence. The fact of the matter is, our country is not wealthy - a "deficit" in the trillions of dollars is nothing more than an overdrawn bank account. Perhaps you should check into some of the "facts" that you're misinformed on - I suggest starting at snopes.com

Seriously? Someone's still wasting time on this crap? Is it a slow news day in east Texas, or what? The people who are trying to demonize Obama at every turn are nothing more than sore losers turned dangerous. You don't have to agree with his policies or even like the man, but for God's sake, let him do his job, already. You can't throw up roadblocks at every turn and then complain that there's not being enough progress made. Obviously this whole birth certificate issue is a desperate attempt to play on the insecurities of a generation that still has a deep-seated fear of immigrants (and even black people, for that matter), and it's sad that this kind of shameless pandering is encouraged in the media for the sake of ratings. What's worse, though, is that you're getting dangerous people all riled up over nothing, which is leading our country in a far worse direction than even a "Kenyan/Muslim pretending to be an American" could ever do. (Kind of ironic, really.) Stop playing with fire, and get some freaking credibility back with your journalism.

By the way, I'm a WEST Texan, and I'd appreciate it if you'd stop making my state out to sound like it's full of a bunch of ignorant bigots. We're not ALL that stupid. How come no one ever questioned anything that Bush did during the eight years he was flushing this country down the toilet? Try doing an article on that...

Maybe Texas should secede after this article.

Let's see, did Neil Armstrong really walk on the moon? Are all those dinosaur fossils real? Come on, enough of this silliness. If Obama has pulled one over on a nation of 300 million, he REALLY deserves to be President, and let's throw in a dozen Oscars for great acting while we're at it. For the past three decades we've dumbed down America with social promotions in weakened schools.....and this is precisely the sort of issue that makes it show. The Chinese are laughing all the way to the bank while we fiddle.

This is not news, this is plain and simple hate, why are we still reading about this mans birth certificate, it's authentic, it makes me wonder if we looked back at some of the pass presidents we might fine one that was not authentic.
Get over it, it is what it is, sorry.

How about clarifying that Hawaii's Department of Health has stated publicly and unequivocally that President Obama is and always has been a citizen of the United States, and that his birth certificate is authentic? This East Texan wonders why the media continues to bring up an issue that is false and misleading. It is a discredit to journalism and a disservice to the public - but also proof that you really can't believe everything you read.

The state of Hawaii did not do either of these things you claim.

Have you folks ...no shame?
A Certificate of Live Birth was issued by the Obama Administration for the public and that wasn't enough. Did it matter that John McCain - like my children- born on a military installation overseas was ALSO issued a Certificate of Live Birth ... no. Why?
There have been two Birth Certificates issued by the state of Hawaii, , officially and publicly accredited by both their Govenor and the head of their Bureau of Statistics. The last one was digitally copied from all angles, sides and folds to include the embossed seal and appropriate signiture. The Birthers came up with a "it was copied from, then photo-shopped from a REAL Birth Certificate... story line.
It is available for review simply by typing in the request on your internet browser.
The Birthers would not be satisfied if God himself came down from Heaven and personally vouched for the President. Why is that? There is something very wrong with those people. In my opinion they need to monitered just as closely as any vocal, maniac-muslim, nut job wearing a U.S. Military uniform.

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